I should have a report up later on the discussions of Iraq in tonight's plenary session. But for now I want to mention an absolutely fascinating conversation I had tonight on the popular subject of hip hop and the Middle East. I got to sit down for half an hour this evening with Ben Chaviz, who runs the Hip Hop Summit Action Network, an organization he founded 8 years ago with Russell Simmons to encourage hip hop artists to work for positive social change. Chaviz feels that hip hop can have an enormously positive role to play in improving America's relations with the Muslim world, and pointed to Brazil and China as places where it has been particularly influential. He argued that hip hop has been one of the most successful American exports in the realm of culture and ideas, and that this was a good thing - an affirmation of American values. Whe I asked him about the critiques of 'gansta rap', he snorted that only people who don't know anything about hip hop say these things - in fact, he said, the so-called 'gansta rappers' really 'flip the script' and use it to expose the degrading effects of poverty and violence and absence of opportunity.
In his view, hip hop has always had a socially progressive message, with its focus on the effects of poverty and the attempts of many of its leading artists to directly address social issues. While Tupac, Nas or Public Enemy are obvious examples of social commentary, he argued that even artists such as Eminem and 50 Cent have become more socially conscious as their global fame has grown (he pointed to serious involvement in anti-poverty programs by Marshall Mathers (Eminem) in Detroit and Fiddy in the Bronx as examples). He particularly noted the response by hip hop artists to Katrina - not only Kanye West's famous remarks about Bush but a more concrete relief effort in the area.
In the Middle East, he pointed out that Jay Z has been working with the UN as a Goodwill Ambassador, and did a tour to the Middle East in that capacity, and that Mos Def, Beyonce, and Kanye West have also done regional tours. He said that in a survey of Palestinian and Israeli youth, 50 Cent was one of the top icons - because, as he put it, Fiddy's tough life represents resilience and irrepresibility and a universal principle of struggling to succeed and making it against impossible odds. Soldiers serving in Iraq, he said, reported finding rap graffiti and 2Pac pictures in Iraqi homes. He also pointed to Arab rappers themselves, including Palestinian hip hop artists.
It was all very interesting. I don't really think that listening to the same music means much in terms of overcoming real political conflicts, but in the more limited sense I remain convinced that exposure to America's real popular culture is a good thing. The obvious next step, of course, is to organize a symposium on the subject with Chuck D, Jay Z and Marshall ("you can smell the lawsuit soon as I waltz in the room") Mathers. Probably not at Williams College, though, which selected Vanilla Ice to be a featured performer this week (one of many reasons I had to get out of town and come to Doha)....maybe Steve Clemons would host it?
Interesting take on cultural diplomacy. Reading your post, I cant help but think of how Dinesh D'Souza may view hip-how - whether he would have a different take on hip-hop music as one of the America's cultural exports that inflames anti-American sentiment within the Muslim world.
Not that I have much respect for "The Enemy at Home."
Posted by: Erik Nisbet | February 18, 2007 at 04:41 PM
Ya Abu Mark, I for one want to thank you for these posts. I believe that perhaps the best way for these debates to go beyond annual words is for them to be televised or at least more widely communicated.
Question: has there been an discussion concerning the evolving power brokering in Palestine between Fatah and Hamas?
Posted by: Dahlia | February 18, 2007 at 05:23 PM
Sorry, I meant Marc :))
Posted by: Dahlia | February 18, 2007 at 05:24 PM
What I found most interesting about this is that he is in Doha. So the hip-hop community is actively interested in doing international relations work.
I'm also one of those people that thinks hiphop is very, very important political--but then i'm a textual politics person.
Posted by: Emily | February 18, 2007 at 05:43 PM
"When I asked him about the critiques of 'gansta rap', he snorted that only people who don't know anything about hip hop say these things - in fact, he said, the so-called 'gansta rappers' really 'flip the script' and use it to expose the degrading effects of poverty and violence and absence of opportunity. "
Do you going to believe the PA schmuck when he says there's no popular suppport for Hamas? There's complex relationship in hip hop between the underground and the mainstream. That's what makes it as significant as it is. Rap is not just "pop music." And 50 cent talks about being shot 9 times it's because he was. But now he pitches bottled water. It's a great country.
It's odd to realize that when it comes to popular culture, and culture as such, you write like American liberals talking about arabs.
For someone whose mannerisms sound as store-bought as Maggie Thatcher's -"What do you give a good friend who's just become the governor of a central bank?"- Lounsbury slums like someone from the old school, or tries to, and at least shows the peasants a little deference.
They deserve it here too.
Styles P.
Yes there's always politics, and political awareness in rap, and even in pop music. But as I said before most importantly, sometimes, there's just honesty.A Gangster and a Gentleman
Posted by: Gimme Cheddar | February 18, 2007 at 08:18 PM
Flip the script? Expose? There are people who actually believe such transparent excuse making tripe?
As for this:For someone whose mannerisms sound as store-bought as Maggie Thatcher's -"What do you give a good friend who's just become the governor of a central bank?"- Lounsbury slums like someone from the old school, or tries to, and at least shows the peasants a little deference.
I haven't a clue as how to read this.
Posted by: The Lounsbury | February 19, 2007 at 05:58 AM
Take it as a compliment.
"Flip the script? Expose? There are people who actually believe such transparent excuse making tripe?"
Yes: people who confuse credulity with respect. But in another context the same people would never be so willing to be naive. Human psychology is complex.
Posted by: Gimme Cheddar | February 19, 2007 at 08:19 AM
Why not hook up the hip hop artists from the U.S. with some of the hip hop artists around the Middle East? There is a large group of Palestinian artists (DAM, the Philistines etc)that they can choose from. A documentary called, "Slingshot Hip Hop" is supposed to come out at some point (? I emailed the director, she's saying their in post-production) but the trailer can be seen on YouTube (link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rdS8zNp3ow) It would be great to see some of these artists have a huge public outlet to get their voice heard through American artists like JayZ etc...
Posted by: Najlah | February 19, 2007 at 10:30 AM
L - one suspects that Ben has been responding to this particular criticism for a long time and has a fairly pat answer to it. I actually think that he is right about a small number of brilliant artists, but clearly wrong about the larger majority of mediocrities who just sing the crap without thinking about it. But if you actually listen to Tupac or comparable artists, his comment would make more sense.
Najlah - I believe that those kinds of ideas are exactly what Ben has in mind, and why he was here in Doha. We'll see what develops...
Posted by: aardvark | February 19, 2007 at 04:17 PM
My Dear Father of Aardvarks:
While I am in fact a fan of even mediocre rap for personal consumption, I find the exceedingly intellectualzed idiocy of Ben's pat answer to be false through and through. It's precious intellectual whankery of the worst order, self-deception posing as respect as my critic/fan supra rather nicely put it (although it would also be good to have thoughts on gifts of course, presently leaning to a pen, which seems so very passe).
As an activity of purely cultural whankery, the proposition of Najlah is fine. I fail to see any utility for American taxpayers, whose hard earned dollars already are pissed away in collosal numbers.
Public diplomacy should further state interest, at least in my terribly traditional view, and there is no bloody lack of access in MENA to US pop culture. Since there is no market failure, I fail to see a reason to create subsidised interventions for, as noted in the other commentary on this, mediocrities and has-beens.
Now, for putting more insular parts of America in touch with the outside world, say country music (which I personally find to be atrocious and tedious), well there you can at least propose some value both in state interest (exposing MENA to a less market promoted aspect of the culture, diversifying the aspects of culture presented) and of cultural interest that is not served by the market.
Sadly, when Left intellectuals sit around and whank on about these subjects, there is a rather strong tendancy to priv. the "hip" aspects of their own culture, those in mode as it were, although equally decrying the fact in general that the non-commercial ly successful parts that intellectuals invariably tend to prefer, are "under appreciated" etc.
Frankly, in terms of cross-cultural understanding the West generally, and the US in particular, have greater need to present their traditional and conservative parts, as the "edgy" non-conservative images are already dominate in MENA via videos, movies, etc.
Anything else is mere excuse for various hangers-on and pretensious gits to suck at the teats of the poor taxpayer. (I should add that none of this denies that there are segments of the corporate world that do the same, but one evil does not make another better).
Posted by: The Lounsbury | February 20, 2007 at 07:03 AM
My Dear Father of Aardvarks:
While I am in fact a fan of even mediocre rap for personal consumption, I find the exceedingly intellectualzed idiocy of Ben's pat answer to be false through and through. It's precious intellectual whankery of the worst order, self-deception posing as respect as my critic/fan supra rather nicely put it (although it would also be good to have thoughts on gifts of course, presently leaning to a pen, which seems so very passe).
As an activity of purely cultural whankery, the proposition of Najlah is fine. I fail to see any utility for American taxpayers, whose hard earned dollars already are pissed away in collosal numbers.
Public diplomacy should further state interest, at least in my terribly traditional view, and there is no bloody lack of access in MENA to US pop culture. Since there is no market failure, I fail to see a reason to create subsidised interventions for, as noted in the other commentary on this, mediocrities and has-beens.
Now, for putting more insular parts of America in touch with the outside world, say country music (which I personally find to be atrocious and tedious), well there you can at least propose some value both in state interest (exposing MENA to a less market promoted aspect of the culture, diversifying the aspects of culture presented) and of cultural interest that is not served by the market.
Sadly, when Left intellectuals sit around and whank on about these subjects, there is a rather strong tendancy to priv. the "hip" aspects of their own culture, those in mode as it were, although equally decrying the fact in general that the non-commercial ly successful parts that intellectuals invariably tend to prefer, are "under appreciated" etc.
Frankly, in terms of cross-cultural understanding the West generally, and the US in particular, have greater need to present their traditional and conservative parts, as the "edgy" non-conservative images are already dominate in MENA via videos, movies, etc.
Anything else is mere excuse for various hangers-on and pretensious gits to suck at the teats of the poor taxpayer. (I should add that none of this denies that there are segments of the corporate world that do the same, but one evil does not make another better).
Posted by: The Lounsbury | February 20, 2007 at 07:04 AM