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March 14, 2005

Comments

Adam Barken

Hi -- adore the site

Just wanted to ask -- do you really think the American media is "ignoring" Jordanian political struggles, in the sense that they have a reason to do so? Or do you not think that the ignoring is occuring because, well, the battle between Jordanian professional associations and parliament isn't exactly the story that Beirut is right now -- and probably will never be, if it stays as such.

I mean, I read you pretty much every day and even I have a hard time following exactly the internecine battles and rivalries at play here. As rivetting as the rejection "of the Interior Minister's demand that the legislation be granted "urgency" status" is and all, it ain't quite a half-million man (and woman) march.

But hey -- if the marches do start in Jordan, I will feel mighty well informed as to the background, thanks to you. All the best, and thanks for keeping the best Arab Media info site on the web. All this and a Cerebus fan too...amazing...seriously...

praktike

Oustez Aardvark, you may be intersted in this King Abdullah II interview, in case you hadn't seen it yet:

http://www.meforum.org/article/688

I think it will provide some insight into why Abdullah won't be challenged any time soon: the hope is that Jordan is following some sort of Qatar/Kuwait model, whereas in Egypt and Saudi Arabia the emphasis from Washington going forward is going to be on the political track to some extent. At least, that's what I see.

Penta

Praktike: Something you miss is that the associations have been, um...extremely hostile to the peace treaty with Israel and the peace process in general.

Ergo, the White House is going to give them the finger.

And with the stance they have on the above issues, so should we, IMHO.

praktike

Ah, yes, I'm well aware of that, but didn't see fit to mention it. Still, one wonders how long one can hold these people down for ... and to what end? Is there a "peace process?"

Manumission

Rana Sabbagh has started leading the campaign against honor crimes? When did that happen? When I was there, it was Rana Husseini, who was the only person writing about them for a long, long time. Rana Sabbagh was more interested in being friends with the Diwan press office than anything else. But your quote sounds just like her style: syrupy sweet but no substance.

Penta: In the nicest way possible... your comments about the Jordanian professional associations encapsulate everything that is wrong about the US's "democracy" campaign in the Middle East. Americans "want democracy" in the Mideast - but, at the same time, we should "give the finger" to civil society institutions, whose stands are actually representative of probably a majority of Jordanians (not to mention the 2 million Palestinian refugees there), because they don't like our beloved Israel. Give me a break.

the aardvark

Oh man, I'm a complete idiot. Got my Rana's confused. Rana Sabbagh is good too, but you are absolutely right. Serves me right for writing on a busy day.

Anna in Cairo

That's OK. I sometimes confuse Abu Aardvark with Abu Mazen! Could happen to anyone. :)

Penta

Manumission: Yeah, valid point.

But, and I ask consideration of what I'm about to say:

We need to decide: If we have to choose between democracy in the Arab world and a collapse of the peace treaties, which do we choose? This is the vicious problem. You cannot choose both in some situations. If you don't reject the Jordanian professional associations, the Israeli-Jordanian peace treaty goes out the window.

If you do, you hold down democracy, but keep the peace treaty.

A similar process exists in Egypt. No democracy could have signed the peace treaty. A democratic Egypt would throw it out the window as one of its first acts, it's that hated.

I'm a recovering realist. If we drop the peace treaties, we basically give up every inch of progress for the last 10 years.

I'm unsure that is a good idea.

If we give up these peace treaties, we basically doom the ME to war for another 30 years. If you think there won't be a lot of Israelis who would feel burned and basically used, I beg to disagree. Most people would.

The PAs don't HAVE to *like* Israel. Neither does the Egyptian street. But, I think that unless we want to throw a Palestinian state and anything resembling ME peace off the table for a long time, we have to combine not squishing civil society with telling them that while they need not like Israel, they *cannot* throw away the peace treaties. Because, frankly, those peace treaties were not things you will get again if they die.

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